Memorandum by Victoria Police regarding letter from South African Police, 21 April 1906

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VICTORIA POLICE--[57]
POLICE DEPARTMENT,
Criminal Investigation Branch,
Melbourne, April 21st 1906

Subject ... PG O
Re Jack Grey @ Stines and Mrs Williams
Inquired about by the C. I. Dept. JohannesburgRylstone N.S.W.

I beg to report for
your information that none of
the members of this branch have
any knowledge of Grey @ Stines.
They cannot imagine who he is
from the description given in
the attached report from South Africa
The same Stines does not
Appear in any of our indexes
As regards the woman
Mrs Williams, there is no
description of her given. It
is possible that she might
be a woman who lived here
with a fellow named Thunderbolt
and passed as his wife. I believe
that her name was Williams.
Thunderbolt was an assistant
sanitary inspector here and at
the time that Deeming murdered
Emily Mather he made a great
fuss and thrust himself into
prominence over the case because
he came from the part of England
Emily Mather belonged to. He collected
Subscriptions and erected a tombstone

Supt Sainsbury
In charge
C. I. Branch
[stamp top left]
Criminal Investigation Branch
1537
23/4/1906

[stamp top right]
CHFCOMM POLICE
24 FEB 06
MELBOURNE

[annotation in red ink]
Mj 3648

[annotation bottom left]

seen

Chief Comm of Police
Melbourne

Transacted
[signature]
21-4-06

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[Top section of form crossed out]

over her grave and was in constant
communication with her friends
in England. After Deeming
was hanged he and his supposed
wife got Emily Mather's clothes
and belonging in order to
forward them to England
to her relatives. Thunderbolt
who was an engineer by trade,
cleared home to England long
since to try and float a company
in connection with a steam engine
governor he invented but no-
one here seems to know what
became of his supposed wife.
She would be now a woman
of about 43 years; she was short,
well built, sallow complexioned,
small brown snaky eyes, very
thin lips, good teeth but there
was something peculiar about her
mouth which I cannot describe
She was the only woman who
got anything in the way of property
belonging to Deeming or Emily Mather.
Deeming was defended

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by Mr Marshall Lyle, Solicitor,
and, as he (Deeming) had no
funds, he assigned all his
personal property to Mr Lyle
and Mr Lyle came here and got
it and took it away. Many
of Deeming's things were afterwards
sold as curios at a curiosity
shop in the Block Arcade.
If Mrs Thunderbolt is the
woman Williams then there are
no convictions against her here
A young woman name -
Rounsefell played a very prominent
part in the Deeming case. She was
engaged to Deeming and was about
to go to West Australia to marry him
when the murder of Emily Mather was
discovered. She, however, did not
get any of Deeming's property, after
his execution. He made her a present
of an engagement ring before he went
to West Australia and she afterwards
retained it.
If Mrs Williams is not identical with
Mrs Thunderbolt the tale about her getting
Deeming's property has no foundation.
[signed] D. G. O'donnell Sergt 2923

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VICTORIA POLICE

POLICE DEPARTMENT,

[crossed out]Inspecting

Superintendent's Office,
MELBOURNE,

CJ Dick 20/4/1906

[stamp left]
Criminal Investigation Branch
1514
20/4/1906

Memo.

For inquiry & report

Sainsbury
Supt

Sgt O'Donnell

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P.O. BOX 895

E. [Coat of arms of Transvaal Town Police] R.

No. C.I.D. 192/2
In subsequent correspondence
please quote above number.

TRANSVAAL TOWN POLICE.

CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT,
GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS,
JOHANNESBURG, 16th March 1906

The Inspector General of Police,
Melbourne. Victoria.

Sir,

I have the honor to inform you that there is a
woman here who is supposed to have been the wife of the
late murderer, Deeming, who was executed in Victoria some
years ago.
The man she is living with here goes by the name of
Jack Grey, and I think he was known in Australia by the
name of Stines.
The woman is supposed to have gone under the name
of Mrs Williams in Australia, and I am informed that after
Deeming's death, she claimed, and was given his personal
property.
I am informed by the Inspector General of Police,
Sydney, that Stines is well known there, and that he had
been charged several times with different offences, but
was acquitted in each case.
The description of Stines is as follows; - About 40
years old, height 5'.8". medium build, fair complexion,
small fair moustache, smart appearance, a spieler, fond
of Horse racing.
If you can discover any connection between Mrs Wil-
-liams and Stines alias Jack Grey, please let me have
particulars, and in the event of your tracing any con-
-victions against either of them, please supply me with
copies of photographs and prison descriptions, &c.
Jack

[stamp to right]
CHF COMM POLICE
20 APR 06
MELBOURNE

[stamp]
Z 3648

[stamp to right]
Criminal Investigation Branch
1223
20/4/1906

[circled annotation in red at top right]
Reply
24/4

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(2)

Z 3648

Jack Grey is a well known criminal in this country,
and he is now wanted on a charge of shop breaking, and
Mrs Grey is a prostitute, and is, at present, in Rhodesia.

I have the honor to be,
Sir,
Your obedient Servant,
[signature]
A/Chief Detective Inspector.C.I.D.
for Commissioner of Police.

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24th April 6.

Z 3648

Sir,
I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your
letter of the 16th ultimo, bearing number C. I. D. 192/2, and
in reply beg to forward herewith copy of a Police report from
which it will be seen that on the description given the
offender Gray @ Stines cannot be identified with any criminal
known to the Police of this State. The report gives also
a full description of the woman connected with the Deeming
case, and will possibly enable the Johannesburg Police to
decide if Mrs. Grey @ Willams is correct in the statements
she has made regarding herself.

I have the honor to be
Sire,
Your obedient servant,
[red wavy line as signature
Actg. Chief Commissioner of Police.

[annotation in red at top]
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